PUBLIC HEARING New Faith Baptist Church 955 Oak Street Columbus, Ohio Saturday, November 13, 2004 1:00 to 5:30 P.M. - - - Organized by: Ohio Citizens Alliance for Secure Elections, This Time We're Watching, People for the American Way Foundation, and the Columbus Institute for Contemporary Journalism Panelists: Bob Fitrakis, Marty Gelfand, Tanya Clay, Sharon Lettman, Michael Beaver, Robert Butler, Charleta Tavares, Larry Price, Tanikka Henriquez, Susan Truitt, Sybil Edwards-McNabb, Robert Rubin, Cliff Arnebeck, William Moss - - - 2 1 WERNER LANGE 23 2 MARION BROWN 27 3 HARVEY WASSERNAN 27 4 VICTORIA PARKS 30 5 BOYD MITCHELL HALL 36 6 BARRY EDNEY 49 7 ROBERT BUTLER 56 8 JOE POPICH 57 9 DEREK WINSOR 61 10 CAROL SHELTON 63 11 LYNN LANDERS 75 12 JAMIA SHEPHERD 93 13 KATHRYN CURRY 95 14 ALLESONDRA HERNANDEZ 103 15 ERIN DEIGNAN 106 16 MICHAEL HAYES 110 17 MATTHEW SEGAL 113 18 JOE DONLIN 116 19 ALLYSON SNYDER 122 20 Kofi 123 21 KOFI 123 22 IAN MacCONNELL 125 23 KELLY KNUTH 131 24 VICTORIA LOVEGREN 135 25 MIKE SWINFORD 146 3 1 ELIZA JANE SCHNEIDER 149 2 RICK WILHELM 154 3 FIONA MITCHELL 156 4 JERRY DOYLE 158 5 PATRICIA ANN BLOCHOWIAK 163 6 KIMBERLY RICHARDSON 175 7 MURLIEN FEATHERSTONE 180 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 Saturday Afternoon Session 2 November 13, 2004 3 - - - 4 MS. HENRIQUEZ: Good afternoon. My name 5 is Tanikka Henriquez, and I am here to talk to you 6 and tell you a little bit about what is going to go 7 on this afternoon. I would like to thank WVKO for 8 all of their help and their support, and we are 9 going to be broadcasting live, and we would like to 10 give them a hand for all of their support. 11 You are here today to witness a public 12 hearing about what really happened on November 2nd. 13 We have seen what the newspaper has said, we heard 14 the rumors and the accusations, but today we are 15 going to hear from you. We are going to actually 16 hear personal accounts of what happened on 17 November 2nd. 18 We would also like to thank New Faith 19 Baptist Church and Pastor Jeffrey Key who was so 20 gracious to allow us to use this venue today. 21 Also our organizers, the League of 22 Independent Voters, Columbus Institute for 23 Contemporary Journalism, and People for the America 24 Way foundation. Thank you. 25 Today we will be hearing from voters, 5 1 poll workers, monitors, voting rights experts, 2 election law specialists, and challengers who will 3 speak for the public records. The reason why we 4 are here today is because thousands of people had 5 trouble voting on November 2nd. Their voices must 6 be heard. Certain communities were 7 disproportionately affected, including first-time 8 voters, young people, and the all-favored people of 9 color. 10 People must have equal access to voting 11 and the electoral process in order to ensure that 12 we have democracy in this country. Sharing these 13 stories will enable us to go forth from here and 14 begin to cre atewhatisneeded,electoralreform. 15 The problems that we heard of included long lines 16 due to inequitable distribution of voting machines, 17 lack of uniform I.D. requirements, machine 18 malfunctions, inadequate assistance at the polls, 19 absentee ballots not received, and lack of 20 consistent info on traditional ballots. 21 This is not about protesting the 22 election or the outcome of the election. This is a 23 question of the legitimacy of this process that 24 makes it less accessible to some voters and more 25 accessible to others. Having your vote counted is 6 1 not a privilege, rather, it is a foundation of 2 democracy. Those of you who will be testifying 3 received a voter affidavit that looks like this. 4 We need you to fill this in concisely, telling us 5 all the pertinent information. Please do not sign 6 until after you testify, at which time you will 7 walk up to this corner of the table, and you will 8 sign in front of a witness. We want you to speak 9 clearly and loudly so you can be heard so that we 10 can get this on the public record. 11 I am going to be introducing today 12 Dr. Bob Fitrakis, who is going to serve as 13 moderator during this time. Mr. Fitrakis is a 14 Political Science Professor in the Social 15 Behavioral Sciences Department at Columbus State 16 Community College, where he won the Distinguished 17 Teachers Award in 1991. He also earned a JD from 18 The Ohio State University College of Law in 1992, 19 and a Ph.D. in Political Science from Wayne State 20 in Detroit, Michigan. 21 We thank Dr. Fitrakis for -- actually, 22 he has been a big adviser for a lot of things that 23 have been going on. He is also the Executive 24 Director for the Columbus Institute for 25 Contemporary Journalism and has published the Free 7 1 Press since 1992, and acted as editor since 1994. 2 In addition, in March 29th, 2004, he 3 served as an International Observer for the 4 national elections in El Salvador. In 1993 he 5 visited Reynosa and Matamoros, Mexico, as part of 6 the Human Rights Delegation to investigate 7 conditions in the Meke Free Trade Zone. 8 As a result of his trip, he co-produced 9 a video entitled the Other Side of Free Trade, 10 shown around the country in colleges and public 11 access stations. This year for Columbus, Ohio, he 12 was an election protection attorney in these 2004 13 elections. As a result, he is quite qualified to 14 lead us today and moderate these public hearings. 15 I would like to introduce to you now Dr. Bob 16 Fitrakis. 17 MR. FITRAKIS: Thanks a lot. Again, the 18 purpose of these hearings is, of course, to put on 19 the record the things that were experienced by 20 voters on election day, November 2nd, and, quite 21 frankly, I was shocked in the 55th ward and in the 22 5th ward to see the long lines of people, many of 23 whom struggled valiantly and waited for hours, two 24 hours and 40 minutes at one poll, three hours and 25 five minutes, more than four hours at another, and 8 1 I think we need to put this on the record at a 2 community public hearing, and again, the idea 3 actually started -- there is some unknown 4 consultant from the Unitarian Church where two days 5 after the election, I was on a panel of political 6 scientists who all sounded greatly depressed, and 7 someone came up and said why don't you guys do 8 something about? And I said, well, we are going to 9 look into this. And he said, well, why don't you 10 have a community public hearing? 11 I don't know his name, but whoever he 12 is, the idea, you know, when I called this the 13 League of Pissed Off Voters, we are there and said 14 we would like to work on it, and I would really 15 like to thank Amy and John who went through the 16 inner city from all over the place, and this really 17 wouldn't have happened without them, and our 18 partners in the election protection coalition. 19 Part of the things is that -- before you give your 20 testimony, I will call your name, you need to 21 actually go through and check in with the court 22 reporter over there, and spell your name to her, 23 and then come up for the testimony. You can do 24 that. I will call the first name or two, and then 25 I will introduce the people that will be taking 9 1 this testimony, with some open comments, and we 2 really, and for those of you, again, who don't like 3 to get up in front of cameras, some of you we know 4 are quite shy, the basement is available to give 5 more private statements. If you don't have time to 6 talk or don't want to talk before the court 7 reporter, you can simply write out, swear out an 8 affidavit. Let me tell you, if what I believe is 9 true as a political scientist, and I believe that 10 there is enough allegation that it looks like 11 systematic voter suppression, is this could go on 12 and perhaps criminal charges could be filed against 13 people, as well as civil suits. 14 With that in mind, let me introduce the 15 panelist, Susan Truitt, again, with CASE Ohio, 16 Citizens Alliance for Secure Elections. She is an 17 attorney, founder of CASE Ohio, and again, their 18 web site is www.CASEOhio.org. And again, we 19 started with Tonya. Where is Sharon? Sharon 20 Lettman, People for the American Way, really who 21 actually trained me for the election, but thanks to 22 Mr. Blackwell, I was trained twice by them. They 23 trained me, and then they changed so many things 24 and went to Court so many times, I had to be 25 retrained. I appreciate you for my training and my 10 1 restraining. The National Election Protection 2 Field Director coordinated 52 field operations 3 across the country on election day in 17 states 4 including Ohio for Election Protection. Welcome to 5 the panel. 6 Robert Rubin with the Lawyers Committee 7 For Civil Rights, lead counsel in challenger cases 8 against Ken Blackwell and counsel and traditional 9 battle cases, ongoing cases that are going on 10 throughout Ohio. You may recall if you go to the 11 Freepress.org, we posted the last change on October 12 28th, they had a free list of signature name and 13 address, and then on election day we have the new 14 one that has affirmation and date of birth, and, 15 again, they are denying this up in Cleveland. But 16 the challenger there sent us the information. So 17 this is an ongoing process to make sure that 18 people's votes are really counted. 19 Again, the lawyers committee are looking 20 for people who were denied a provisional ballot on 21 election day after having requested an absentee 22 ballot. Very important to ongoing litigation. 23 Thank you, Mr. Rubin, for being here. And, of 24 course, my good friend William Moss, former long- 25 time member of the Columbus School Board, and a man 11 1 who has always spoken out on behalf of the 2 community and welcome to have him here today, but 3 also he could have had a second career, because he 4 was one of the great record producers ever, ever in 5 the city with his own studio. Bill Moss, a great 6 community advocate. Thank you, Bill Moss. 7 I would like to allow each of the 8 panelists to say a few introductory comments. I 9 think your mikes are working there, and I have 10 another one if they are not. Let's start with 11 Mr. Moss. 12 MR. MOSS: Thank you, Bob. I, of 13 course, was on the air with you prior to the 14 convening of this portion of the activities today, 15 so I pretty much have spoken to what my purpose is 16 and what I believe this is about. But let me 17 simply thank you. It is such a pleasure, and even 18 more, it is thrilling to see people with this kind 19 of response and who are willing to stand up, and 20 when things are going smoothly and moving along 21 nicely, and everybody is feeling okay, it is easy 22 to take a position. But it is when we might be on 23 under threat, when we may have something to lose, 24 when we may be watched, when there may be some 25 effort to intimidate or to deny, and we make the 12 1 personal choice to take a stand is more 2 commendable, even more important, even more 3 thrilling to witness. 4 I believe this is very important, what 5 is taking place here today, and every last one of 6 you present here has a part in it. I just want to 7 say thank you and let the hearings begin. 8 MR. RUBIN: I'd like to touch on a 9 couple things that we have been looking at in Ohio 10 in the last few weeks. I am actually an immigrant. 11 I am from San Francisco. I hope you will indulge 12 me. We were horrified by what we have seen here in 13 Ohio. We were horrified by what we were seeing in 14 Ohio and made this a priority for challenging 15 Kenneth Blackwell's actions. There are a number of 16 issues that we are focusing on. First of all, 17 Mr. Blackwell took the position that you could only 18 file a provisional ballot in your own precinct. 19 That undercuts the whole purpose of provisional 20 ballots, as many people know. You can move. The 21 whole idea was to empower people who have moved, 22 changed address, who are still registered voters. 23 Mr. Blackwell, yet another attempt to suppress the 24 vote, took the position you had to be in your own 25 precinct. Secondly, he threatened to flood the 13 1 polls with challenges, people whose sole purpose is 2 to harass minority and poor voters as they attempt 3 to secure the franchise. We challenged him on 4 that, and we did get a statewide injunction that 5 was later overturned in the State Supreme Court. 6 Third, we heard a little bit about 7 absentee ballots. Thousands of absentee ballots 8 were never received due to ineptness and 9 inefficiency of Mr. Blackwell's office. That 10 wasn't bad enough, Mr. Blackwell then took the 11 position that even though through no fault of your 12 own you had not received absentee ballot, you still 13 couldn't file a provisional ballot. You hadn't 14 done anything wrong, you were just waiting for an 15 absentee ballot that never came because it was sent 16 to the wrong address. Our lead Plaintiff called 17 the Secretary of State's office to find out what 18 happened to an absentee ballot. He said, oh, it 19 was sent to 231 Chestnut, not 213 Chestnut. And 20 she said, what do I do? He said, why don't you go 21 to 213 and rummage through their mailbox? 22 Seriously. Well, she didn't do that. She 23 contacted us, and we filed suit, and Sara White was 24 able to cast a ballot because of the White versus 25 Blackwell case which secured a statewide injunction 14 1 ordering Blackwell to allow these votes to be cast. 2 Now, what has happened since then is 3 that he has taken the position that even though a 4 federal judge has ordered him to allow the votes to 5 be cast, he is not going to allow them to be 6 counted. So in Kenneth Blackwell's Orwellian 7 vision of election systems, you can cast a ballot, 8 supposedly, but I am not going to count it. We are 9 now looking for people who are in that category of 10 voter, and if you tried to vote a provisional 11 ballot on election day, were turned away, 12 particularly if you have requested an absentee 13 ballot that you never received, please contact me 14 after this panel, we will go downstairs and fill 15 out an affidavit. We very well may be back in 16 court the next few days. 17 So under the guise of combatting voter 18 fraud, Ken Blackwell has engaged in massive voter 19 suppression the likes that we haven't seen since 20 the days of Mississippi and poll taxes and literacy 21 tests and dual registration requirements. Too many 22 people have fought, too many people have died to 23 secure the right to vote. Cheney, Learner, and 24 Goodman are only three. They got buried in an 25 earthen dam in Philadelphia, Mississippi, for 15 1 trying to register black vote. We will not sit 2 idly by while Kenneth Blackwell tries to suppress 3 the vote and tries to deny people this cherished 4 right to vote in our public elections. 5 MS. LETTMAN: Once again, I am Sharon 6 Lettman, People for the American Way Foundation, 7 and I have the unique honor of, as being here as a 8 resident of the State of Florida, by way of D.C., 9 so, believe me, I understand your pain. Ever since 10 the election, there has been a conventional wisdom 11 growing written news media that the election ran 12 smooth. That is a myth. The reality is there were 13 a thousands, there with thousands -- we are going 14 to get this right. The reality is there were 15 thousands upon thousands of problems all over the 16 country from unexplained vote tallies on electronic 17 voting machines, to lines so long that working men 18 and women had to give up and go back to work or 19 care for their children without casting a vote. 20 Election officials made bad decisions, 21 horrible decisions that kept voters away from the 22 polls. Voters were asked I.D. when they didn't 23 need to present it. Absentee ballots were late or 24 never came at all. People in some precincts had 25 plenty of voting machines, while others in other 16 1 precincts had so few, people were waiting in line 2 for more than ten hours. That is completely 3 unacceptable. 4 All of these problems were felt the most 5 in the urban and rural precincts with high 6 percentages of minorities and poor voters, and in 7 many cases all of these problems lead to the same 8 result, eligible voters were denied the right to 9 cast a vote that would count. That is wrong. It 10 is un-American, and it is not the system a great 11 democracy requires. 12 As a founding member of the Election 13 Protection Coalition, People For the American Way 14 Foundation deployed thousands of volunteers at 15 polling places all over Ohio. In fact, we deployed 16 volunteers in minority and low-income precincts 17 across the nation. We saw these problems firsthand 18 on the ground, and more than 125,000 calls came 19 into the election protection hotline. That was 20 just a tip of the iceberg. What about the millions 21 of voters who didn't have election protection 22 volunteers at their own polling places? What about 23 the voters who didn't know the hotline number? You 24 have to assume that the problems we actually heard 25 about and saw were merely a fraction of what 17 1 occurred around the country. That is unacceptable. 2 We are already analyzing the information we 3 uncovered on election day. We have already 4 prepared lawsuits to address some of the most 5 troubling problems we found, and we are starting to 6 put together an aggressive election reform agenda 7 to be carried out by citizens all over this 8 country, especially here in Ohio. The greatest 9 democracy in the world requires the finest election 10 system in the world, one where people of color, the 11 poor, and everyone of every nationality and race 12 has the same chance to cast a vote that counts as a 13 citizen of this country. 14 I am here today to hear your testimony 15 about what happened right here in Ohio and add it 16 to our growing arsenal of truth. Thank you for 17 coming forward with your stories and your energy 18 and your ideas for positive change. We are going 19 to get to the bottom of this. Thank you. 20 PANELIST: Our organization in Ohio, 21 CASE Ohio, has been fighting against Ken 22 Blackwell's outrageous behavior since the early 23 part of this year, and we have watched in horror as 24 he tried to cram paperless Diebold, ES&S, and 25 Intercivic voting machines down the throats of 18 1 boards of elections throughout the State of Ohio, 2 and eventually, with a lot of lobbying and effort 3 on a lot of citizens parts, no new paperless 4 electronic voting machines were deployed in Ohio 5 this year, but there were seven counties in Ohio 6 that have paperless voting machines, including 7 Franklin County, where we are sitting right now in 8 Columbus, and there were other populous counties 9 with those paperless machines, including Mahoning 10 and Lake, and there were reports, over 30,000 11 reports in Ohio of vote jumping, where people would 12 try to vote for Kerry, it would light up for Bush, 13 and it this is being investigated by, among others, 14 the Electronic Frontier Foundation, which is 15 EFF.org. 16 We have reports of 4,000 votes in 17 Franklin County -- I know you know the story in 18 Gahanna -- that were tallied for Bush, when there 19 were only over about 600 voters in the precinct. 20 So this is just what we have discovered thus far 21 this year, and over 90,000 spoiled ballots that we 22 need to hand count. We need to look at those 23 spoiled ballots. 24 We have specific statutes in Ohio that 25 give you precise definitions of what a pregnant 19 1 chad is, a dimpled chad, a hanging chad. We are 2 not as disorganized as Florida was on that issue, 3 but I would say that Ohio is definitely challenging 4 Florida for the debacle of the year, and our 5 election system in this country is broken, and we 6 need to fix it now. 7 Ten hours to wait in line to vote is a 8 system failure. Two hours to wait in line to vote 9 is a system failure. Inability to cast a 10 provisional ballot when you have moved and you are 11 not in Mr. Blackwell's designated precinct for you 12 is a system failure. There were so many denials of 13 right to vote on election day, it was a travesty. 14 I was a volunteer at the election protection 15 organization in Columbus. I was at Driving Park 16 when there were people threatening to tow voters' 17 cars because they had been there too long. 18 Well, excuse us, but we do have the 19 right to vote, an if our cars are parked for a long 20 time, it is merely an indication of a broken 21 system. 22 This is the time to examine Ohio's 23 election and the country's, because if we don't fix 24 it now, we are never going to fix it. 25 MR. FITRAKIS: Thank you for those 20 1 opening comments. Let me -- I am sorry, my very 2 good friend Charleta Tavares, who has joined us, 3 Columbus City Council, and has a long history of 4 standing up for people's rights. Charleta. 5 MS. TAVARES: Thank you, Dr. Fitrakis. 6 First of all, I want to thank everyone for joining 7 us and to all the other panelists, to the 8 sponsoring organizations, thank you, thank you for 9 coming to Columbus, Ohio, and hosting this forum so 10 we can learn about what went wrong on election day. 11 I am not proud at this point in time to 12 be an Ohio citizen because many of our citizens did 13 not, did not get an opportunity to exercise their 14 right to vote. Their right to vote, not their 15 privilege to vote, their right to vote. 16 I just want to share one story. On 17 election day, I had the opportunity and the right 18 to vote at my polling location. It is in an area 19 of the City of Columbus that is predominantly 20 Democrat and an area of our city that is a little 21 more affluent. You would think that we would have 22 the number of voting machines that we should have. 23 A large number of elderly people vote at my polling 24 location, which happens to be the Jewish Center. 25 Large numbers of elderly people, African American, 21 1 Jewish American, white American, residents that 2 live in my neighborhood. I waited two hours. 3 There were three voting machines, three voting 4 machines. 5 My husband, who was there many hours 6 before me, waited two hours to vote. I saw people 7 who, fortunately, because of where we were located, 8 it was a large facility, a facility that enabled 9 all of us to be inside during the election process. 10 We didn't have to stand out in the cold. We did 11 not have to stand out in the rain because of the 12 beautiful large facility we had to vote in. We 13 were fortunate that there were chairs that the 14 elderly could sit down, that they didn't have to 15 stand for two hours to vote. 16 I can't even imagine what my mother and 17 other elderly people had to go through at their 18 polling locations, where they had to stand in the 19 rain, stand outside, and in some cases, because 20 they were infirm or disabled, had to leave and not 21 cast their ballot. I know that is the truth, 22 because I heard it from throughout the State of 23 Ohio, not just in Columbus, Ohio. I heard it from 24 individuals who were elderly, who told me that they 25 did not get to cast their ballot because somebody 22 1 came by their door the night before and said you 2 don't have to go tomorrow to cast your ballot, you 3 can sign this form, and we will cast it for you. 4 That happened in Toledo, Ohio. We had problems all 5 across the state. So this hearing is important. 6 This hearing is important to document 7 what went wrong and how people were disenfranchised 8 from the weight of the paper of the ballot, to 9 provisional ballots that aren't going to be counted 10 because people are not voting in the right 11 precinct. Again, it is a right. It is not a 12 privilege. If you are a citizen of these United 13 States, you meet the requirements of the election, 14 you can vote, and the requirements are to be 15 18 years of age, live in that county or that 16 municipality for 30 days, and you can vote, being a 17 registered voter. 18 So I am anxious, Dr. Fitrakis, to hear 19 from our participants today, those who are going to 20 testify on what happened, so that we can change 21 things in the State of Ohio and change what happens 22 on election day throughout America. Thank you. 23 MR. FITRAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Tavares. 24 I would like to call our first witness, Werner 25 Lange. 23 1 - - - 2 WERNER LANGE 3 Being first duly sworn, testified as 4 follows: 5 MR. LANGE: Thank you. My name is 6 Werner Lange. I reside in northeast Ohio at 510 7 Superior Street, in the town of Newton Falls. 8 After voting in my precinct, I volunteered my 9 service as a pastor at the polls and went to 10 Youngstown, Ohio, to the inner city and observed 11 the following. 12 In precincts 1 A and 5 G, voting at 13 Hillman Elementary School, which is a predominantly 14 African American community, there were woefully 15 insufficient number of voting machines in three 16 precincts. I was told that the standard was to 17 have one voting machine per 100 registered voters. 18 Precinct A had 750 registered voters. Precinct G 19 had 690. There should have been 14 voting machines 20 at this site. There were only 6, three per 21 precinct, less than 50 percent of the standard. 22 This caused an enormous bottleneck among voters who 23 had to wait a very, very long time to vote, many of 24 them giving up in frustration and leaving. 25 The second incident, I estimate, by the 24 1 way, that an estimated loss of over 8,000 votes 2 from the African American community in the City of 3 Youngstown alone, with its 84 precincts, were lost 4 due to insufficient voting machines, and that would 5 translate to some 7,000 votes lost for John Kerry 6 for President in Youngstown alone. 7 Another incident was a van with a 8 wheelchair-bound voter pulling up to a voting site, 9 Hillman Elementary School. The driver tried for 10 over an hour to gain access to the voting machines 11 for this wheel-bound citizen. He couldn't do so, 12 so he drove off, and the disabled voter did not 13 cast his vote. I did not see, but I was told that 14 a similar incident happened at the same site about 15 an hour earlier, then all the voting poll workers 16 went outside and shut down, basically, the poll for 17 about 45 minutes, not allowing anybody to vote 18 while they allowed this one disabled voter to vote. 19 Lastly, just yesterday I went to the 20 Trumbull Board of Elections in northeast Ohio, 21 wanted to review their precinct logs so I could 22 continue my investigation. This was denied. I was 23 told by the Board of Elections official that I 24 could not see them until after the official vote 25 was given. 25 1 So I ask you panel and those that are 2 listening to make the words of the Kerry campaign 3 hold true where they said that every vote counts, 4 every vote will be counted. This is clearly not 5 the case here in Ohio. I ask us to call upon 6 Senator Kerry to unconcede and launch a full-scale 7 investigation. 8 MR. FITRAKIS: Just before the next 9 witness comes, explain the process and the 10 implications of unconceding that you call for John 11 Kerry to do. 12 MR. LANGE: Obviously, with the 13 information at hand at the time, and probably with 14 the best interests of the nation at hand, and 15 perhaps even the news of the breast cancer of the 16 vice-presidential candidate's wife weighing heavily 17 upon his mind, Senator Kerry made his decision, I 18 think, with the limited information he had. 19 However, with the information that is now coming 20 from Ohio, I hope his campaign can give serious 21 consideration to unconceding. 22 MR. MOSS: Thank you very much. I am 23 going to ask at some point Bob Fitrakis, who is an 24 attorney, to explain what the implications are of 25 John Kerry unconceding within the time constraints 26 1 of deadlines, as regarding the officiating. 2 MR. FITRAKIS: Conceding is purely a 3 ritualistic political tradition, that has no 4 binding legal consequence on the actual vote in 5 Ohio. 6 MR. MOSS: Would it have a significant 7 impact that he made a public statement to say that 8 given the fact that we are having these hearings 9 and what is coming forward in testimony, that 10 unconceding would give us a full chance at -- 11 MR. RUBIN: Let me just say one other 12 thing about that, which is that the vote is not 13 actually official. The official ballots 14 themselves, the count will not be completed until 15 this coming Thursday. So I think that what you say 16 is absolutely true, that concession is simply a 17 political tradition and has no legal import. 18 The other thing that I would like to 19 just say quickly is somewhat of a disclaimer, and I 20 think I can speak on behalf of my colleague from 21 the People for American Way, as well as myself and 22 the Lawyers For Civil Rights, we are a nonprofit 23 organization, therefore, we cannot take partisan 24 positions. So feel free to voice, you know, your 25 feelings. We just need to say that we are here on 27 1 behalf of all voters and the right to vote. We 2 take no partisan position. Thank you. 3 MR. FITRAKIS: Marion Brown. 4 MS. BROWN: I am Marion Brown, and I am 5 here on behalf of a friend. My friend came to my 6 home very upset while she was away standing four 7 hours in the voting, her husband passed away. The 8 funeral was on yesterday, November 13th, at 2:00. 9 Perhaps had she not stood so long in the line, she 10 may have been able to save her husband. 11 MR. FITRAKIS: Harvey Wasserman, come 12 forward. The procedure is you have to be sworn in. 13 PANELIST: If I could take a second to 14 interject something. CASE Ohio is also 15 nonpartisan. We don't ever want to have to live 16 through another election like this, regardless of 17 who won. 18 - - - 19 HARVEY WASSERNAN 20 Being first duly sworn, testified as 21 follows: 22 MR. WASSERMAN: My name is Harvey 23 Wasserman. I live in Bexley. I have lived at the 24 same address since 1986. I have voted consistently 25 since 1976. I decided this year, my wife and I had 28 1 plans to go out of town on election day, so I 2 decided -- we decided to vote absentee, and I went 3 down to the, well, to the registration for absentee 4 balloting on Broad Street, the old COSI building. 5 I went in there. We went separately, but I filled 6 out my form with the same address that I have lived 7 at since 1986, and I checked my registration as 8 Democrat, which I decided to do this year, and a 9 few days later I received in the mail a rejection 10 of my application for the absentee ballot stating 11 that I had filled in the wrong address, but it came 12 to the right address, and so I called and said that 13 this is -- I showed my driver's license by the way, 14 when I signed up for the absentee ballot -- and I 15 called, and the first person I talked to said that 16 we are really swamped because we have been 17 rejecting a lot of these applications, and after 18 four phone calls, I finally did receive an absentee 19 ballot. 20 So my question would be then, how many 21 absentee ballots were actually rejected for no good 22 reason whatsoever? I mean, it was utterly absurd 23 to have a rejection of my particular application, 24 and for no reason whatsoever. I had the time and 25 the wherewithal to make these four phone calls, 29 1 which did not take an inconsiderable amount of 2 time, and we would wonder, have to wonder how many 3 similar absentee applications were rejected. 4 I still, of course, don't know if my 5 ballot actually counted. I did go down there 6 personally to deliver it, but I suppose I will 7 never know. My concern, as with everyone here, I 8 am sure, is not just the outcome of the election, 9 but the fact that this could go on and that we have 10 a situation in this country where an election could 11 be stolen. We saw it happen in 2000. I don't 12 think there is any doubt about that, but the 13 question now is between the electronic voting 14 machines, the fooling around with the 15 registrations, the denial of absentee ballots, and 16 the other kinds of things that have gone on, we are 17 talking here allegedly about a three and a half 18 million vote gap between Bush and Kerry, but the 19 reality is if you look at the mechanics of this 20 election across the country as extrapolated from 21 Ohio, it would be very easy for someone to steal an 22 election, and we simply can't have that in an 23 alleged democracy, because we know if it can be 24 stolen, it will be stolen. 25 So at this point we don't officially 30 1 know as we do about 2000 that this election was 2 stolen, but we do certainly know that it could have 3 been. 4 PANELIST: Just one point real quickly, 5 for people who did vote by provisional ballot, you 6 do have the right to know whether your ballot was 7 counted, and there is a toll free number for the 8 Secretary of State. 9 FROM THE FLOOR: Can you please speak 10 up. 11 MR. WASSERMAN: If we cast an absentee 12 ballot, we have a right to know if it was counted, 13 and so I will follow-up on that and maybe this time 14 you will get my address correct. I am sure the FBI 15 has it. 16 - - - 17 VICTORIA PARKS 18 Being first duly sworn, testified as 19 follows: 20 MR. FITRAKIS: Victoria Parks. 21 MS. PARKS: My name is Victoria Parks. 22 Can you hear me in the back? I have two 23 experiences to testify to today. The first one, I 24 decided this year that I would volunteer to be a 25 poll worker because there was a shortage of them, 31 1 and so I did that in Priority C, Franklin County. 2 We normally have six voting machines in this 3 precinct. This time we had only three. This 4 resulted in long lines. Some people had to wait up 5 to two hours, and working people in the morning had 6 to leave because they couldn't stay in line for two 7 hours. That was my voting day experience, the 8 shortage of voting machines. Yesterday on November 9 12th I had heard about all of the election 10 irregularities and anomalies. I am a concerned 11 citizen. I care about my democracy. Voting is one 12 of the things that makes our country a democracy. 13 I decided I would go to the Pickaway 14 County Board of Elections to take advantage of the 15 open records law and examine these poll books. I 16 had been in Perry County a couple days earlier 17 doing this. 18 In Perry County there were actual 19 signatures, signatures of record, and signatures 20 taken on November 2nd at the time the voters are 21 given their authority to vote. In Perry County 22 they had these signatures on file. 23 In Pickaway County, oh, my goodness, in 24 Pickaway County, I entered there, I was shown a 25 table, 53 poll books were plunked down in front of 32 1 me. I noticed there were no signatures on file in 2 any of the poll books, in any of the poll books, 3 and furthermore, a minute later the director of the 4 Board of Elections of Pickaway County came into the 5 room and snatched the books away from me and said 6 you cannot look at these books. I said are you 7 aware that what you are doing is against the law? 8 She said I have been on the phone with the 9 Secretary of State and he has instructed me to take 10 these books away and you cannot see them. I 11 paraphrase very slightly here. 12 She took them away. I was persona non 13 grata. I did not want to risk arrest, and I left. 14 Thank you. 15 PANELIST: What precinct? 16 MS. PARKS: That was Pickaway. I worked 17 as a poll worker in Prairie C. 18 PANELIST: Prairie C? 19 MS. PARKS: Yes, ma'am. 20 PANELIST: How did you know there were 21 previously six voting machines? 22 MS. PARKS: I was told that by my boss. 23 PANELIST: A precinct captain? 24 MS. PARKS: He was presiding judge. 25 Yes, he was presiding judge. 33 1 PANELIST: And when you were in Perry 2 County, allowed you to compare the signatures, that 3 was given you authority by the election supervisor 4 or -- 5 MS. PARKS: When I was in the room, they 6 were cordial to me, you know, and they did allow me 7 to look at the books. I was able to make some 8 notes and compare, and I noticed that there were 9 some signatures that weren't on file yet, the 10 signature on the day of voting was still in the 11 book. There were about five of those in one 12 precinct that I looked at. 13 MR. MOSS: But you said in Pickaway 14 County they did not allow you to see the books? 15 MS. PARKS: Initially, they did, with 16 some reluctance. I was treated in a terse manner, 17 but not -- I was not impolite at all. I was very 18 polite, and they were reluctant, but they said, 19 sure, come on back and look at the books, and she 20 literally threw the books on the table. And that, 21 you know, I just said thank you. And then I 22 proceeded to begin to look at the very first book, 23 Circleville 1 A. 24 And I noticed that there were no 25 signatures on file. I turned to one of the workers 34 1 who was probably a younger office worker, and I 2 said, excuse me, there are no signatures in this 3 poll book. Do you have the signatures available? 4 And she sort of fumbled around and kind of 5 half-heartedly looked for them, and she said I 6 don't know where they are, and I thought, you know, 7 how strange to not have signatures after, when you 8 are given an authority to vote slip, you only get 9 that slip after you sign the poll book, at least in 10 the precinct I worked at, and that makes sense to 11 me, but these, these weren't signatures, excuse me, 12 these were the names of the voters listed in 13 chronological order, as they must have come in, by 14 the same person, it was in the same writing, and 15 just their name, printed, their address printed, 16 were in these books. No signature. 17 MS. TAVARES: I have one other question. 18 In my poll location there is a typed name, address, 19 and then there is room for an original signature, 20 and then there is a space for you to sign as you 21 get that little form that allows you to vote. So 22 there was not an original signature in the book, 23 and then there wasn't a second signature, is that 24 what you are saying? 25 MS. PARKS: There were no signatures, 35 1 and furthermore, the writing in the book seemed to 2 have been written in the same hand, because that is 3 a requirement. 4 MS. TAVARES: You know, there are 5 challenges to whether somebody is eligible to vote 6 or not, and one of the ways that can be challenged 7 is whether the signatures match. 8 MS. PARKS: That is correct, and I was 9 not able to do that in Pickaway County. Thank you. 10 MR. RUBIN: Is there a note whether or 11 not the results were published? 12 MS. PARKS: Actually, there was some 13 public information that they made available to the 14 public on the counter in the office when I walked 15 in, there was a lady in front of me, an elderly 16 lady, and she asked about these results. There 17 were election results for Pickaway County in the 18 totals on a perforated computer paper, and they 19 were for public record, so I did take one of those. 20 MR. RUBIN: Did they have a reasonable 21 number who had not voted? 22 MS. PARKS: Over 22,000 votes in 23 Pickaway County recorded on this, the information 24 that I got, that they had made available. 25 MS. TRUITT: Prairie C, is that Prairie 36 1 Elementary School? 2 MS. PARKS: Prairie C is a precinct in 3 the far western side of the Franklin County in 4 Prairie Township. 5 MS. TRUITT: Okay. 6 MR. FITRAKIS: In order, next is Boyd 7 Mitchell. 8 - - - 9 BOYD MITCHELL HALL 10 Being first duly sworn, testified as 11 follows: 12 MR. MITCHELL: My name is Boyd Mitchell 13 Hall, and I want to thank everyone who gave me a 14 chance to volunteer with Election Protection, but 15 my experience tells me it was desperately needed, 16 and I feel really good about the time I spent. 17 MR. FITRAKIS: They appear to be towing 18 trucks outside, so if you are in a place that you 19 are susceptible to that, please check that out. 20 MR. MITCHELL: That dovetails with one 21 of my stories. Where I volunteer was at Driving 22 Park Rec Center, 1035 B and C were the precincts, 23 and I was on the front lines. Those were the 24 precincts that went very heavily for Kerry. The 25 unofficial results showed something less than 50 37 1 votes for Bush in those precincts, and something 2 over 1300 votes for Kerry, so that was the front 3 lines, that is where whatever effort they might 4 have been trying to do would have happened. 5 What I saw was voter intimidation in the 6 form of city employees that were sent in to stop 7 illegal parking. Now, in Driving Park Rec Center 8 there are less than 50 legal parking spots, and 9 there were literally hundreds and hundreds of 10 voters there, and I estimated at least 70 percent 11 of the people were illegally parked in the grass 12 around the perimeter of the Driving Park Rec 13 Center, and two city employees drove up in a city 14 truck and said that they had been sent there to 15 stop illegal parking, and they went so far as to 16 harass at least a couple of voters that I saw, and 17 when they were talking to us, they were kind. But 18 when they didn't realize we were overhearing them 19 talking to voters, they were trying to keep people 20 from parking where they were parking. They went so 21 far as to set up some cones, trying to block people 22 from getting into a grassy area. 23 The second thing that I saw that really 24 scared me, frustrated me, was an elderly 25 hospitalized African American there, and his family 38 1 brought him in a van. He still had the IV in his 2 arm, and at the hospital they had refused to allow 3 him to vote absentee, and his family says that they 4 had tried, they made every reasonable effort to get 5 him an absentee ballot in the hospital, and what he 6 was told was that he needed to be there a couple 7 days earlier, you know, somehow he didn't get his 8 request in in time, and this bothers me a lot, 9 because The Columbus Dispatch Thursday, printed a 10 letter to the editor from a person who was claiming 11 that they asked for the opportunity to vote 12 absentee at 4:00 in the afternoon, and they were 13 taken care of, and I have a suspicion that maybe, 14 you know, we are talking about a race issue with 15 the one person being African American being turned 16 down. 17 I also witnessed voters who were angry 18 and frustrated, denied the right to vote, but 19 unfortunately, they weren't fully aware of election 20 protection being there for them, and they were so 21 frustrated, so angry, they just walked away. 22 I saw two instances of that, people 23 said -- for instance, one gentleman said I have 24 been voting here for ten years and I have never 25 moved, never, and I have never had a problem 39 1 voting, but this year they are not letting me vote. 2 They are telling me I have to go somewhere else. 3 Now, another thing I saw was inefficient 4 use of the rec center. There was plenty of room in 5 that rec center to have everybody inside. However, 6 the lines spilled out into the rain, and as 7 everybody knows, 4:30, 5:00, the driving rain came, 8 and we had a lot of people standing outside in the 9 cold and wind and driving rain when they could have 10 been inside. Now, to their credit, when I went in 11 and I said something to the people inside, they did 12 make the line around in a more efficient manner, 13 and within a half hour or so they did get everybody 14 inside, but it shouldn't be up to someone like me 15 to come from across town to have something like 16 this happen. 17 Now, I know I am going over, but if you 18 are willing -- okay. I took a report of people 19 telling me that voters could vote tomorrow, meaning 20 November 3rd, because of the long lines. Now, what 21 they said was -- I had this from three different 22 sources. This is why I believe it. Okay. The 23 first three guys who drove up and told me, you 24 know, I thought, well, maybe this is true, maybe it 25 is not. But then I had two other people come up 40 1 independently, oh, yeah, I saw it, and what 2 happened was they were at Livingston and Champion, 3 they were telling people that because of the long 4 lines and the heavy turnout, you can vote tomorrow. 5 And election protection had a lot of wonderful 6 things, I had a phone, I called a camera crew, and 7 they were on their way over there, but 8 unfortunately, Livingston Avenue is not listed as 9 Livingston Avenue on Map Quest. We need to be a 10 little better organized with more local people to 11 help the out-of-town volunteers with the cameras. 12 It is great that we have people from Pennsylvania 13 and New York and other places with cameras. We 14 need to have local people to explain to them that 15 Route 33 is Livingston and Livingston is Route 33. 16 Another thing that I saw, I calculated 17 that I maybe saw about 20 percent of the people 18 that left Driving Park D and C, I personally saw 19 and talked to about 20 percent of them as they left 20 the poll between 12:30 and 8 p.m. And I saw 15 21 people who left because the line was too long. The 22 lines inside were anywhere from 2 1/2 to 5 hours. 23 Most everybody said 4 hours, and I saw at least 15 24 people who did not vote, and I heard a gentleman 25 who was earlier making some mathematical 41 1 calculations, well, if this is going on across 2 town, and, you know, in a precinct where it was 3 going so heavily for Kerry, and me only seeing 20 4 percent of the people coming out, I saw 15. We 5 could just do the math and extrapolate that out 6 into a huge number of people who might have voted 7 had they had a chance. 8 I have got two more things here. There 9 were people complaining of uncomfortable conditions 10 inside. They didn't have enough chairs, especially 11 for elderly people. You know, at least -- I live 12 in a very white neighborhood, and they had a lot of 13 accommodations for the long lines. They had 14 staggered chairs. You could move from one chair to 15 the next, especially for the elderly people. 16 It was poorly ventilated, not enough 17 circulation, people were uncomfortable and hot. 18 Again, I will say that the lines were anywhere from 19 three to four hours most of the day, 2 1/2 hours 20 was the best I heard all day, and I was there from 21 12:30 until 8, and my sense is the Driving Park was 22 probably one of the places -- I looked into the 23 eyes of one of the challengers that was there, and 24 that will haunt me until the day I die, seeing what 25 he was doing and what he was there for, and it will 42 1 disturb me until the day I die, but people who were 2 actually working the poll, I think they generally 3 were doing the best that they could. They had four 4 machines per precinct, and I suspect maybe 5 something like 1500 or so people actually voting, 6 and if it was 60 or 70 percent turnout, if you want 7 to do your math of how many registered voters are 8 in that precinct to how many machines, maybe that 9 would prevent this in the future. Thank you. 10 MS. TRUITT: I have a question. I had 11 the honor of being out there with you that day for 12 a little while, because it was pretty crazy, and I 13 just wanted to ask a question. Do you remember 14 what the signs -- 15 MR. MITCHELL: Which signs? 16 MS. TRUITT: Did they ask people to 17 remove signs, do you remember? 1866 R vote signs, 18 were they asking -- 19 MR. MITCHELL: You are right, yeah, they 20 did for about an hour and a half. We had to take 21 our signs down. We were set up with six volunteers 22 from Election Protection, and we were passing out 23 you have the right to vote brochures, pamphlets, 24 fliers, and had our signs up, and they asked us to 25 take the signs down. 43 1 MS. TRUITT: Who is they? 2 MR. MITCHELL: I believe that was the 3 same two guys in the city truck who were worried 4 about the parking. I may not -- to be honest with 5 you, there were six of us there, and it took -- we 6 could have used 12, and I was putting out other 7 fires at the time. I am aware that the signs came 8 down, and then I am aware they put the signs back 9 up. I was worried about other things, like the 10 80-year-old man, however old he was, who had an IV 11 in his arm. 12 MS. TRUITT: I was there, and I saw that 13 as well, and I talked to the family, and I told 14 them to file an EIRS complaint, and they didn't 15 want to do it then because they wanted to get the 16 poor man back to the hospital because he was still 17 on IVs, and they said they begged the hospital to 18 let him vote absentee, and they said he got in the 19 hospital with not enough days in the hospital to 20 vote absentee. It was a really amazing scene. 21 I had one other question. When they set 22 up pylons blocking cars from going into more grassy 23 areas, they basically blocked cars in there, right? 24 I mean, there were cars parked in there, and they 25 blocked them in. 44 1 MR. MITCHELL: Including mine. 2 MS. TRUITT: Including yours. Okay. 3 Thanks. 4 MS. TAVARES: One question. I am very 5 very much interested in the City of Columbus 6 employees that you said were towing cars. Were 7 they towing or removing cars or asking people to 8 move their cars? 9 MR. MITCHELL: What happened is they 10 appeared, and we became aware of them when we saw 11 them talking to people who had parked in the grass 12 and were walking in, and then they confronted those 13 people who parked in the grass. They were saying 14 you can't park there. 15 MS. TAVARES: Did you get a license 16 plate or names of any of those -- 17 MR. MITCHELL: The Election Protection 18 people -- I had a cell phone, I called in, and so 19 somewhere in the archives of the Election 20 Protection I am sure there is a mountain of 21 information, but I did call it in and they did take 22 the license plate of the city vehicle from me. You 23 know, I gave that over the phone. I did not write 24 it down. 25 MS. TAVARES: Thank you. 45 1 MS. CLAY: I am Tonya Clay. I am one of 2 the attorneys for the People For the American Way 3 Foundation. I wanted to follow-up with you on that 4 point to make sure we do have all of your 5 information. Just to verify, what precinct were 6 you in again? 7 MR. MITCHELL: 1035 B and C, Driving 8 Park Rec Center. 9 MS. CLAY: Thank you. 1035 Driving Park 10 Rec Center, 1035 B and C. 11 MS. HENRIQUEZ: Just really quick, I 12 want to make some announcements. When you come up, 13 please, after you finish, you are going to start 14 over here on this side, and we want you to sign in 15 with the stenographer, and then you are going to 16 come up, give your testimony. Please try to speak 17 as loudly as possible into the mike. The people in 18 the back are having a hard time hearing you. When 19 you finish, come to me so that you can sign your 20 affidavit and you can leave it here with me. Okay? 21 I am Tanikka Henriquez, and if anybody has any 22 questions, they can refer them to me. Okay? We 23 are going to keep right on going. 24 MR. FITRAKIS: We have confirmed that 25 the Red Cross lot, you can park in there, that they 46 1 cannot tow you. There is an agreement with the 2 church. We now have Marty Gelfand joining us from 3 US Representative Kucinich's office, Dennis 4 Kucinich. If you would say a few words. 5 MR. GELFAND: Thank you very much. It 6 is a great honor to be, here and particularly 7 sharing the panel with Councilman Charleta Tavares, 8 who is no stranger to the Cleveland area. She was 9 up there campaigning for Secretary of State a few 10 years ago, and what a different environment this 11 would be had she been the Secretary of State, but 12 she is with council and great things will happen 13 for her. 14 I am here on behalf of Congressman 15 Dennis Kucinich and Ohio's 10th Congressional 16 District. I am here in an official capacity as 17 senior counsel for Congressman Kucinich and as a 18 congressional aide, because Ohio is the difference 19 between which candidate becomes president and which 20 candidate does not. 21 We know there was a concession. We know 22 that there was on the unofficial vote count there 23 is 136,000 more votes for candidate Bush over 24 candidate Kerry but, this is a very crucial time 25 right now, this interim period between the 47 1 unofficial vote count after election day and the 2 official vote count that will be reported by the 88 3 boards of election to the Secretary of State on 4 December 1st; a very crucial time because a lot of 5 things have to happen. Number one, because all the 6 votes have to be counted, and there are a lot of 7 votes that haven't been counted yet. There are 8 approximately 155,000 provisional ballots, rules 9 have to be made. They haven't been for the most 10 part for how these votes are going to be counted, 11 and there are over-votes, which are -- some people 12 call them spoil ballots, but they are over-votes, 13 because more than one hole is punched in the 14 presidential section. So those all have to be 15 reviewed, and there are also voters from overseas, 16 that we have military people who voted, we have 17 civilians who are overseas, and particularly our 18 military people, they might be fighting in a war, 19 they might be in adverse situations, their votes 20 need to be counted just as the people here who 21 stood in line for so long. 22 As an attorney, I was working on some of 23 the voter protection stuff in Cuyahoga County. We 24 saw a number of problems, most of which we were 25 able to solve pretty quickly. We had a cooperative 48 1 election board that did respond to problems when 2 they occurred. We have a county prosecutor who put 3 the word out that he wasn't going to accept any 4 shenanigans. Things went fairly smoothly in 5 Cuyahoga County. However, we did have long lines, 6 and that does need to be looked at. 7 But the other thing that had to happen 8 is there are attorneys on the grounds, some of whom 9 are on this panel, around the state, who are 10 looking at what the boards of election are doing, 11 what the Secretary of State is doing, and will be 12 ready to make challenges as they need to be made 13 between now and during this important period of 14 counting the votes. Finally, as a congressional 15 aide, I am here to observe all of the things that 16 you are saying, because Congressman Kucinich needs 17 to go back to congress in the 109th Congress come 18 January, and he needs to review these issues, 19 because congress did pass the Help America Vote Act 20 after the 2000 election, but now we have the 2004 21 election, and we need to make sure that some of 22 these issues that are being reported here are 23 reported to the whole congress so that we can 24 address the issues, reform the act as necessary, 25 and see that these problems don't happen in future 49 1 elections. Again, I am honored to be on this 2 panel. Thank you very much, everyone, for coming. 3 MR. FITRAKIS: Also after the testimony 4 we will be introducing Robert Butler with the 5 Libertarian Party. You may have heard that the 6 Libertarian Party is recounting the State, as are 7 the Greens, so he will make a few remarks. And 8 state representative Larry Price, who has joined 9 the panel, and we will hear from them briefly. 10 - - - 11 BARRY EDNEY 12 Being first duly sworn, testified as 13 follows: 14 MR. EDNEY: My name is Reverend Barry 15 Edney, a community activist, a long-time barber in 16 the city of Columbus. I also worked on voter 17 registration, getting people to register throughout 18 the city of Columbus and also in my barbershop. 19 A lot of young people for the first time 20 voted, and also for the first time a lot of people 21 that had felonies that knew that they couldn't 22 vote, tried to vote. I just want to say this, 23 because I am not discouraged of the outcome, but I 24 just want to say let's give everybody in this 25 audience a hand and the people across the America 50 1 that voted for their rights. 2 One thing I thank God that my 3 grandfather and my grandmother always told me that, 4 you know, it was a time when they was unable to 5 vote. So I appreciate the fact that I exercised 6 all of my rights to vote, free speech and 7 everything that comes with this. This is America. 8 The Constitution of America says that we have this 9 freedom. I just want to say this, because I voted 10 at -- and some people didn't tell where they voted 11 and some did. But I voted at Broad Street 12 Presbyterian Church at Broad and Garfield, and also 13 reside on Garfield at Pierce Estates, and I was 14 told when I listened to the news that morning, they 15 said, well, you better not come between a certain 16 time. Now, this is the news saying this, right? 17 So I am sitting there listening to this around 18 6:00. So I am going to get my tail up and get up 19 and vote early. So I got there at 6:45, packed. I 20 heard on the media, they said that your best time 21 to come is between nine and eleven, or around one 22 to two or something, one to three. 23 Well, let me say this, those who were 24 out there serving the polls, and you all know, 25 there was no better time. The lines were packed 51 1 all day. So if they told you that, some people was 2 fooled. What I am discouraged about, what the 3 media did was show this at noon and show how packed 4 it was, and it discouraged a lot of people that 5 voted for the first time not to vote. 6 But I do believe that a lot of people 7 did vote, because it said over 120 to 130 million 8 people voted. So I believe a lot of people did 9 vote. But I do believe that, and I am honestly 10 saying this, that I believe that America was ripped 11 off, because I believe John Kerry actually won this 12 election. 13 I just want to say this, because what I 14 noticed at my polling place is that it was a long 15 line, and then they had -- it was confusing because 16 they had where, you know, people standing in line, 17 the line was all the way out the back door, and 18 then they had a place where people were sitting 19 down some, so people didn't know that. They didn't 20 have enough workers to tell people and, you know, 21 me being the activist that I am, telling people 22 that was trying to stand in line, for the people 23 that already went to the desk that were standing in 24 that to use the machine, that you got to go all the 25 way up front. There were people walking up to that 52 1 door, and they were looking at these people in line 2 and they said, oh, my God, you know. So, you know, 3 we had to, as community people, to volunteer to 4 help people, you know, tell them what to do, 5 because they did not have enough people in those 6 polling places to tell people what to do. 7 There were long lines, a shorter staff, 8 and also there were people out there, I don't know 9 what party they were from, who were they 10 representing, but they were sending people away. I 11 was out there, and I got interviewed by the New 12 York Times, and he was asking me all kind of 13 questions. While I was out there, there were 14 people out there saying, well, it is crowded, maybe 15 you all need to come back. You know, it was 16 discouraging to hear people say that, because I 17 think it should be my right and it is your right to 18 decide what is long and how long you want to wait, 19 because our vote is worth counting, and that is why 20 I stayed. 21 I want to say this, because there was a 22 young lady, she had some children she had to drop 23 off for school. She said that she was coming back. 24 I asked her please come back, because I know it is 25 discouraging, you stand in line for almost an hour, 53 1 and then you think that you are going to get your 2 children -- children outside waiting in the car, 3 and I just really want to thank the Lord and thank 4 God, because you know what? It did rain, but you 5 know one thing, in November it was like 6 50-something degrees, and it was warm, so we could 7 deal with that. So give God a hand. What is wrong 8 with y'all? I am serious, because, you know, we 9 sit and complain, and in my closing, because I can 10 be long sometimes, some of y'all seen me speak at 11 City Council, I just wanted to say this, some of 12 y'all play lottery machines, some of y'all seen 13 this tickets, right? Don't act like you never 14 played. I think the Mega is 120-some million. 15 Some of y'all are probably lying. But I want to 16 say this, I am saying this to say that if you have 17 something as simple as this, a lottery machine 18 card, it basically tells you where you played, it 19 tells you what the number is, what is so hard 20 having a card like this, where we can get in 21 advance, you already have this, and it has a code, 22 has your name, social security already encoded, and 23 it may be a little bit bigger, because you could 24 put all of the candidates' names on it, all of the 25 issues on it, and you just hit that block, okay, so 54 1 when we come to the polls, no long lines, no 2 nothing, just put it in the machine and it is done. 3 Why are we making it so difficult and so hard? 4 I don't even agree with the states that 5 have voting early, because I believe fraud can 6 could be done in that case, because, you know, this 7 is Kerry votes, this is Bush votes, let's throw 8 these out, you know what I mean? So that voting 9 early isn't going to get it for me. The reason why 10 I think everybody should vote the same day, except 11 absentee votes, folk that may be out of town or 12 people sick or elderly, I believe that the only 13 reason why we should vote the same day, because you 14 know what? You and I can change your thought 15 pattern six months -- you might have voted six 16 months ago, then you see six months, you may not 17 want that candidate, and you already voted. So I 18 believe if we come up with a system that so easy as 19 the lottery machine, here you can play the Mega in 20 about 17 states and pay the Powerball in about 15 21 states, almost 30-some states together, they tally 22 up the machines, and they could tell you played it 23 in West Virginia, they can tell you played in 24 Columbus, Ohio, they can tell you played in New 25 York. Why can't they fix the voting machines the 55 1 same way? 2 In my closing, because I mean, you 3 probably got somebody like Bill Gates would like to 4 make these machines and maybe write it off taxes 5 and give us machines for our country, but I think 6 every state, not just Ohio, okay, because, you 7 know, last time it was Florida, and even though we 8 said it on Ohio like they said it on Florida, I 9 believe, especially in rural counties, if people 10 did vote for Kerry, you would not know because they 11 have it controlled, and in this state alone where 12 you have 70 counties that use chad cards, you could 13 throw them away easy. 14 So all I am saying, let us not just fix 15 this in Ohio, but fix this all across America, 16 where it will be all the same type of machines, 17 something as simple as a lottery machine, after 18 7:30, you know what? They can tell you at 7:35 19 what the number was and whether you won, as simple 20 as that. Let's make it simple. God bless all of 21 you. 22 MR. FITRAKIS: Joe Popich. And, again, 23 Robert Butler, if you would like to introduce 24 yourself. Again, we would ask all of the people 25 testifying to speak loudly. 56 1 - - - 2 ROBERT BUTLER 3 Being first duly sworn, testified as 4 follows: 5 MR. BUTLER: My name is Robert Butler. 6 I am here today representing the Libertarian Party 7 of Ohio. You didn't see our name on the ballot 8 this year, and the reason why is because Ken 9 Blackwell kept it off. We signed -- got 57,000 10 signatures to be on the ballot this year as the 11 Libertarian Party, and Ken Blackwell rejected 12 those. He said that there was a slight change at 13 the bottom of the form that needed to be made, and 14 on that basis he rejected those. We took him to 15 court. We are still fighting an appeal now. Of 16 course, the election is already over, but we are 17 hoping that we can clean up the system for next 18 time. 19 We are currently -- our presidential 20 candidate, Michael Badnarik, is currently raising 21 part of the money. We heard that $110,000 was 22 needed by the Secretary of State's office to do a 23 recount. We are currently raising that money with 24 the Green Party, and I just wanted to let you know 25 that the Libertarian party has suffered some of the 57 1 worst kind of discrimination in this race, and it 2 hasn't been talked about on TV. Our presidential 3 candidate was arrested trying to attend one of the 4 debates in Missouri. Our presidential candidate 5 was put on the terrorist no-fly list and not 6 allowed to travel freely without talking to FBI 7 first. 8 So this is some problems that we have, 9 and it is not only the Democrats and Republicans, 10 there are other parties out there that are not 11 getting equal representation. So that is why I am 12 here today. 13 - - - 14 JOE POPICH 15 Being first duly sworn, testified as 16 follows: 17 MR. POPICH: Good afternoon. My name is 18 Joe Popich, and I was the Kerry and Edwards field 19 organizer in Fairfield and Perry Counties for this 20 past election, and having that position after the 21 election, I was in the unique position to look at 22 some numbers that probably were not readily 23 available to the rest of America, to the rest of 24 Ohioans. 25 In analyzing some of the numbers, they 58 1 just weren't adding up. So after a day of 2 mourning, Thursday I went down to the Board of 3 Elections in one of the counties, Perry County, and 4 I started doing a little research, and I went back 5 to our little office that we had, that we were 6 closing up, and we looked at some more numbers, and 7 we decided, a little small group of three people, 8 that the voter log books, the poll books had the 9 answers, because numbers do not lie. 10 So I went to the Board of Elections on 11 Friday, and I started doing a little audit. What I 12 have here is one copy of one poll book from Perry 13 County. I'd like to thank the Perry County Board 14 of Elections for all of their cooperation in our 15 endeavor, I should say. There are a bunch of 16 irregularities in this log book, but the most 17 blatant irregularity would be the fact that there 18 are 360 signatures in this book. There are 33 19 people who voted absentee ballot at this precinct, 20 for a total of 393 votes that should be attributed 21 to that precinct. However, the Board of Elections 22 is attributing 96 more votes to that precinct than 23 what this log book reflects. I will be happy to 24 take any questions. I will be happy to provide 25 this to you if you would like it. I just would 59 1 like you to note page 24, page 25, page 30, where 2 there is no signature on record, yet there is a 3 signature of a person who supposedly voted. 4 MS. CLAY: I would like to have that 5 submitted for the record so that we can have a copy 6 of that. I wanted to ask a follow-up. You said 7 that this is for Perry County, correct? 8 MR. POPICH: Yes. 9 MS. CLAY: Is this the same county that 10 you were based in? You said you were field 11 organizer in that area, is that correct? 12 MR. POPICH: Yes, ma'am. 13 MS. CLAY: Just so I am clear, there is 14 a total of 393 votes that have been now -- you got 15 that count from -- 16 MR. POPICH: I got that count from the 17 signatures in that book, plus the number of 18 absentee ballots that were in that precinct. The 19 precinct is named Reading Township South. Its 20 precinct number is ABC. I should have said that 21 earlier. 22 MS. CLAY: One more question. Where are 23 you -- the Board of Elections, is this coming from 24 the web site, or did you ask them how many, where 25 are you getting a count that they are attributing 60 1 96 additional votes? 2 MR. POPICH: That came from the Board of 3 Elections. 4 MS. CLAY: Directly from a person there, 5 or from their web site? 6 MR. POPICH: We are out in cow country. 7 From their print-out. 8 MS. CLAY: Thank you. My DC stuff 9 coming through. I am sorry. 10 MR. POPICH: Not a problem. Any other 11 questions? Thank you very much. 12 MR. FITRAKIS: Derrick W. Windsor is 13 next. 14 Larry, if you would like to quickly 15 introduce yourself. 16 MR. PRICE: Thank you. I am State 17 Representative Larry Price, and let me give you a 18 hand for coming out and sharing your testimony. 19 Let me share with you quickly, we all believe that 20 the election needs to be looked at very closely. I 21 introduced the Help Reform the Vote Act Ohio 22 instituted last week, and I will be introducing 23 Monday a resolution for a constitutional amendment 24 to allow early voting. I will also be introducing 25 early voting legislation. The last thing that the 61 1 Ohio Legislative Black Caucus is making Secretary 2 of State the number one priority in the 2006 3 election. We believe we should not let this happen 4 again. 5 - - - 6 DEREK WINSOR 7 Being first duly sworn, testified as 8 follows: 9 MR. WINSOR: My name is Derek Winsor, 10 and I have been a resident of Columbus since 1995, 11 full-time in Victorian Village, and I wanted to 12 just briefly relate what happened on election day. 13 I voted at 14 C. Out of the six total voting 14 machines that were at 14 C, three of them showed 15 some type of malfunction that at one point or 16 another during the three or so hours that we were 17 waiting, and between my wife and me, we had asked 18 poll workers individually if they could explain 19 what was going on and what kind of reassurances 20 they could give us that, for one machine in 21 particular that the votes had already been posted 22 on, that machine would be counted, and the response 23 was just, oh, they will be counted. And how can 24 you be sure of that? What storage mechanism do 25 they use to ensure that the votes are stored, and, 62 1 again, the response was just, well, they just are. 2 And that was a bit of a concern here. I have a 3 tremendous amount of respect for any poll volunteer 4 who takes time out of their day to do this work, 5 but I have concerns about the system that is being 6 used to educate these poll workers and also for the 7 people standing in line. If there wasn't any 8 documentation explaining how votes are stored, what 9 types of machines they were, were these Diebold 10 machines you hear about whose C.E.O. apparently 11 promised to deliver Ohio to Bush in 2004, I think 12 an issue was how we as voters, how poll workers 13 receive reassurances about the way these votes are 14 stored, how can they be sure that these votes will 15 be stored? 16 So retroactively for this election for 17 future ones, I am very concerned about that, would 18 like to see better documentation, better education 19 of poll workers so that we can at least be sure 20 that our vote will be counted, considering how much 21 is at stake. That was all I had. Questions? 22 PANELIST: Yes. A couple questions. 23 The machine that you said malfunctioned, could you 24 be more specific? 25 MR. POPICH: Sure. One in particular, 63 1 there was a red light that would go on in these 2 machines when they weren't functioning, and there 3 was one in particular that wasn't functioning 4 during almost the entire three hours that I was 5 there, and I verified this by actually asking one 6 of the poll workers, is that machine broken? I 7 could see that nobody was going up and using it, 8 and she verified it was malfunctioning, and that is 9 what led to the exchange that I was describing. 10 Any others questions? Okay. 11 MR. FITRAKIS: Thanks for your 12 testimony. Floyd Johnson. 13 - - - 14 CAROL SHELTON 15 Being first duly sworn, testified as 16 follows: 17 MS. SHELTON: Hello. I am happy that 18 you are having this hearing. My name is Carol 19 Shelton. I was presiding judge, Democratic, at 20 precinct 25 B at the Linden Branch of the Columbus 21 Metropolitan Library. The precinct is 95 to 22 99 percent black. According to the library 23 manager, literacy rate is low. It was obvious to 24 me by my observations that disability rates were 25 high. Economic level was low, and commitment to 64 1 getting rid of Bush is very high. There were 1,500 2 persons on the precinct rolls. We received three 3 machines. In my own precinct in Clintonville, 19 4 E, we always received three machines for 700 to 730 5 voters. Voter turnout in my own precinct has 6 reached as high as 70 percent while I worked there. 7 I interviewed many voters in 25 B and asked how 8 many machines they had had in the past. Everyone 9 who had a recollection said five or six. 10 I called to get more machines and ended 11 up being connected with Matt Damschroder, the 12 Director of the Board of Elections. After a real 13 hassle -- and someone here has it on videotape, he 14 sent me a fourth machine which did not dent the 15 length of the line. Fewer than 700 voted, although 16 the turnout at the beginning of the day would cause 17 anyone to predict a turnout of over 80 percent. 18 This was a clear case of voter suppression by 19 making voting an impossibility for anyone who had 20 to go to work or anyone who was stuck at home 21 caring for children or the elderly while another 22 family member voted. Many voters had cell phones, 23 and the word got out that the lines were very long 24 in all the precincts within ward 25. The word also 25 got out when the voters who completed their voting 65 1 went home and told of their experiences, and of 2 course it also got out through the media. I 3 unfortunately added to that and didn't realize that 4 I was causing harm as far as voter suppression was 5 concerned. The library manager and her staff, all 6 the poll workers, and numerous volunteers did 7 everything we could to make the voters happy so 8 they would stay and vote. I was unable to enforce 9 the five-minute rule because when the voter got 10 into the booth and stayed too long, I would tell 11 that person that their five minutes were up to a 12 person the response was, I waited hours to get in 13 here, and I am not leaving until I complete my 14 voting. I am an experienced presiding judge. I 15 have been doing it for quite a few years. In 16 addition to following the law, I consider it my 17 duty to make sure no one is disenfranchised 18 regardless of what it takes. This was a travesty. 19 Now, I would like to testify on something, but I 20 need your approval to do it. What I would like to 21 do is I would like to mention a particular media, 22 but it won't be favorable. Is it okay? All right. 23 Well, I had two challengers, one was 24 Democrat, and one was Republican. They both had 25 the necessary papers. I swore them both in. The 66 1 Republican challenger was wearing a baseball cap 2 with 10 TV on it. That was perfectly fine with me. 3 You know, it wasn't advertising a political, a 4 particular political party if you didn't pay a 5 whole lot of attention to what was going on in the 6 world. However, a few minutes after he arrived, he 7 asked me if he could photograph in there, and I 8 said no, you can't play two roles. If you are the 9 challenger, you are not going to photograph. I 10 turned around, did something else, and the man 11 disappeared and never came back for the rest of the 12 day. So that is my off the record, now on the 13 record testimony. Okay. We need to go over all of 14 the records of placement of voting machines for 15 this general election and for the past four years 16 of general elections to determine, one, the per- 17 registered voter distribution, and, two, the known 18 partisanship of the precincts. Because the 19 director of the Board of Elections is a Republican 20 and because the Secretary of State, State Attorney 21 General, Governor, and State Auditor are all 22 Republicans, we must question how distribution was 23 determined. 24 I heard many rumors about some people 25 walking in, voting, and walking right back out. I 67 1 haven't received any facts on it. We really need 2 facts. I personally am more than willing to work 3 as a researcher to undercover these facts. Thank 4 you. 5 MR. GELFAND: Thank you for your 6 testimony, Carol. I wanted to hear a little bit 7 more about the five-minute rule as a poll judge and 8 poll worker, I would like to hear about that. I 9 have been voting for many years, and I know that 10 often particularly in elections where there are a 11 lot of candidates and issues to choose from, I 12 don't think I could ever get out of there in less 13 than 15 or 20 minutes. 14 So I am not even aware of the 15 five-minute rule. Would you say a little bit more 16 about that, and as a poll judge, were you enforcing 17 it, and were other poll workers enforcing it? And 18 how diligently were they enforcing it? 19 MS. SHELTON: Well, as a presiding 20 judge, when a voter who was waiting said to me, the 21 person who was next up or two people up from being 22 up, said that person has been in there too long, I 23 would go over and stand outside the booth and say 24 your five minutes is up, and the answer came back 25 the same every time, what I reported to you. Now, 68 1 we are trained to enforce the five-minute rule, but 2 we are not told how to do it. We are not told to 3 yank them out or call for the police or shut down 4 the machine or anything like that. We are just 5 told to enforce the five-minute rule, and since it 6 is, for me, disenfranchising a voter because of it 7 is certainly not worth it. 8 MR. GELFAND: You didn't do that, but is 9 it your experience as a poll judge, presiding 10 judge, or a poll worker, in your years of doing 11 this, that other poll workers were more zealous in 12 enforcing the five-minute rule? Have you seen this 13 in this election or other elections? 14 MS. SHELTON: I have never seen it. We 15 make every accommodation for people who have 16 disabilities and don't put any time limit on that. 17 We did put pregnant women, that is, ones who were 18 obviously in some degree of stress, up at the front 19 of the line, and people who were obviously 20 exceedingly disabled, we put them up at the front 21 of the line. Other than that, we didn't make any 22 other changes. 23 MR. GELFAND: One other question. You 24 spoke about the long line at your polling place and 25 the frustration level that you witnessed. Did you 69 1 actually personally see people leave because the 2 line was so long? 3 MS. SHELTON: Yes, I did. I spent most 4 of my time, because I had enough poll workers and 5 they were doing a beautiful job, we were always 6 exactly where we needed to be, nobody ever waited 7 for us, I spent all my time circulating and 8 circulating among the people saying please stay, 9 please vote, please bring people from home, that it 10 couldn't be helped, and on two or three occasions I 11 wrote notes as if I were a doctor or a teacher 12 saying that so and so couldn't get to work on time 13 because of the lines at the precinct, and I signed 14 my name and my phone number and all of that. 15 And, of course, the biggest hand, in 16 addition to all the Right-to-Vote people who helped 17 us tremendously, I want to say that they gave the 18 library to us, the Linden Branch library, they gave 19 it to us. They did everything in their power to 20 accommodate us. We took it over. We even made a 21 mess out of it, because people heard about our 22 distress and brought us food and beverage. So 23 thank you very much. 24 MS. TAVARES: Mrs. Shelton, I just have 25 another question with respect to the five-minute 70 1 rule. Has that been a policy in previous 2 elections, that it was enforced, or have you ever 3 been trained that we only have five minutes on a 4 machine in previous elections? 5 MS. SHELTON: I have always been told 6 that for as long as I can remember, and with no 7 information on how to enforce it, and I have never 8 witnessed it being enforced when I was like a poll 9 worker and not the presiding judge, and I have 10 never enforced it. I only do that small gesture in 11 order to help appease the people who are waiting. 12 MS. TAVARES: I guess just one other 13 follow-up question, as a presiding judge and 14 someone who has been involved in elections as a 15 poll worker for a number of years, have you had any 16 problems or did you have any problems in this 17 election with people who wanted to vote but may 18 have had difficulty with either reading the names, 19 or had language difficulties, because I witnessed 20 something of that nature at my personal polling 21 location, and I am just concerned about that. 22 MS. SHELTON: Okay. I have witnessed 23 this many times, but never with language, because I 24 have not been in a precinct where there was a 25 language problem. But many disabled people and 71 1 people with serious vision problems -- by the way, 2 I always bring a couple of pair of magnifying 3 glasses to the polls to help people, but when 4 somebody has difficulty, they are allowed to take a 5 family member in with them, and we always allow 6 that. We do not allow them to take anyone else in 7 with them, but one Republican and one Democrat goes 8 in with them to assist them in handling the voting. 9 We don't allow just one. It has to be one from 10 each party. 11 MS. TAVARES: But that is only if a 12 member isn't there, correct? 13 MS. SHELTON: Right. And if it is, for 14 example, somebody from a nursing home, an employee 15 of the nursing home, we do not allow them in. In 16 any case where there is any kind of a relationship 17 that could possibly be interpreted as coercion. 18 MS. TAVARES: The reason I asked that 19 question was because at my polling location I 20 witnessed a husband and wife where the wife was a 21 Russian immigrant, was a citizen, who needed help, 22 and she wanted her husband to go in with her, and 23 they were challenged by the poll workers, and I had 24 to keep arguing that she had that right. She 25 wanted her husband in there, and they challenged 72 1 her, and then finally, someone then said okay, you 2 can go in, but they were not going to let her 3 husband go in. That is why he wanted to get that 4 on the record. 5 MS. SHELTON: Yes. The challenger needs 6 a little more education on voting rules. 7 MR. BUTLER: I just had a quick 8 question. As a Libertarian, I know many people who 9 are Independent or Libertarian voters who are not 10 allowed to work the polls, because in Ohio you have 11 to be a Republican or Democrat to work in a polling 12 place. Has that been your experience, you know, as 13 presiding judge, that you have only Democrats or 14 Republicans working? 15 MS. SHELTON: No. We also have 16 Independents, but we have never had anyone, in the 17 precincts where I have worked, I mostly have worked 18 in Clintonville, because they try to make it easy 19 for you, and this time the voter protection people 20 asked me to take a precinct that would be 21 difficult, which I was more than happy to do. But 22 I have never had a problem. 23 MR. BUTLER: Was that up to the 24 discretion of the judge, or who determines whether 25 an Independent will be allowed to work at a polling 73 1 place? 2 MS. SHELTON: I think it is up to the 3 Board of Elections. Because I am a Democrat, I 4 have never done anything personally to go out and 5 try to accommodate the Libertarians or the Green 6 Party. I would if I were a member of those, I 7 would do everything that I could. But I have never 8 been in a situation where anybody created an issue 9 of it. 10 MR. GELFAND: I think the answer to 11 that, Mr. Butler, is the board of elections hires 12 all of the poll workers, so it would be an issue 13 that if a Libertarian wanted to be a poll worker, 14 that would be taken up with the Board of Elections 15 in the county in question. 16 MR. BUTLER: That problem that we 17 usually have is that we are told that we are not 18 allowed to work at the polls, either to observe or 19 to be a poll worker. 20 MR. PRICE: My question has to do with 21 the five-minute rule, did that come to you in memo 22 form, quoting the Ohio Revised Code? How did you 23 get that directive? 24 MS. SHELTON: I always attend class, and 25 I believe it is also in the book. But I can't 74 1 swear to that right now. I just know that I hear 2 it whenever I attend class. I don't tend to read 3 the book every time, because I pretty much have it 4 down pat. Maybe, maybe I better read the book 5 again. I don't know. 6 MR. PRICE: We need to find out where 7 that is coming from, whether or not that is a 8 directive from Blackwell versus a directive from 9 the Ohio Revised Code. 10 MS. CLAY: With regard to housing four 11 (phonetic), that is the question that needs to be 12 answered. Typically, according to the statute, it 13 states that if there is somebody waiting in line or 14 if there is a machine malfunction, then somebody 15 requests it, like they have been for you, then you 16 have to enforce it. 17 MS SHELTON: I haven't received my check 18 for working. I might now if everybody in the world 19 finds out I didn't impose a certain rule. 20 MR. PRICE: Well, that is why I asked 21 the question. We need to look at when we put 22 together the polsters package. Thank you. 23 MR. FITRAKIS: I believe we are going to 24 have to go over 4:00 today. Lynn Landers, who is 25 one of the first persons we have asked, will be 75 1 coming up next, and after that, again, we are going 2 to have to be a little strict on enforcing the 3 three-minute rule. 4 Also, six to nine on Monday a the county 5 courthouse. Let it be known we originally tried to 6 get the Franklin County Board of Elections, but 7 they moved us to the courthouse. Okay. Lynn 8 Landers. Thank you. 9 - - - 10 LYNN LANDERS 11 Being first duly sworn, testified as 12 follows: 13 MS. LANDERS: Thank you for the three 14 minutes. Five. Okay. Hi. I am Lynn Landers. I 15 am from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. I am a 16 journalist. I have been covering this issue of 17 voting systems and democracy issues for the past 18 three years. I write articles. I give interviews. 19 And so I am involved in print and broadcast media. 20 I have been giving interviews about this issue from 21 radio stations all over the world. 22 Yesterday I had three, one from Jamaica, 23 two online, so this is getting to be hotter as an 24 issue, and it doesn't look like it is going to go 25 away as a result of this election process. I also 76 1 want to describe my background in terms of 2 politics. I was a Democratic committee person in 3 the early nineties. I was chair of our township 4 Democratic party, and I ran for local office. In 5 this last election I was a poll watcher. So I have 6 had quite a bit of experience with the Democratic 7 process, and when I was first introduced to the 8 subject of the insecurity of the voting machines by 9 Dr. Rebecca Berger (phonetic), she and I were 10 committee people together, again, back in the 11 nineties, it took a long time for it to -- for me 12 to get to understand the risk these voting machines 13 pose to our democracy, and I am here to say there 14 is no fixing these machines. In fact, it looks 15 like the machines have already been fixed. I think 16 it is important for people here to understand that 17 there are only about a half dozen countries in the 18 whole world that don't bother to count their own 19 votes, and we are one of them. It is the United 20 States, Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina, and India. 21 Half of the Netherlands also uses voting machines. 22 I got a call from a resident of Trinidad. There is 23 a two-island nation, Trinidad and Tobago. He 24 called me to say that they had suffered with voting 25 machines for 30 years, and finally, the people 77 1 revolted and they are back to paper ballots, and 2 that is what we need to do. If you think of voting 3 as a three-step process, it is marking the ballot, 4 casting the ballot, and counting the ballot. It is 5 a three-step process. All three steps are 6 critical. There are two other standards for voting 7 under the law, under case law and statute, and 8 particularly when you look at the role of the 9 federal observer in US code, what do they want to 10 see? They want to know that voters are qualified 11 t